Fritz
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by Fritz on Nov 4, 2011 21:18:53 GMT -5
So here is my question about the guild and its direction.
A couple of things have been bothering me, and I see people ask in guild chat about it and never get a response.
Lately I have noticed there is very little to no coordination on part of the guild leadership in planning events, or communicating with the rest of the guild. It is troublesome to be logging off on a Friday night and see that a raid is about to be formed up when there was never any notice given about it... Based on past experience I have noticed that Saturday and Sunday seems to be our normal raid nights, and suddenly there is an impromptu raid on Friday night.
I am all for spreading raid nights around, not everyone can make the weekends, but I do feel cheated when proper notice hasnt been given so we can attempt to make it.
In addition to that there is rarely a post made by leadership about raiding, even though the guild motd online clearly says to sign up on the forums. It seems that Dayson is the only one to post about raids, and its usually a night or two ahead of time because nobody else has.
So i guess what I am saying is that it is bothering me that there is little to no consitency in regards to how we handle guild events. This disheartens me and coupled alongside the fact that guildmates are often ignored in guild chat or other channels makes me feel as though the leadership doesnt care.
I really enjoy my guildmates, but I (and maybe others who are too quiet to say something) am starting to think that without more involvement and communication on part of the leadership that its time for me to move on.
The only person I have seen trying to do anything leadership wise is Wynterskye, and I know she cant do everything along.
So where do we go from here? Any thoughts?
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Post by Dayson on Nov 4, 2011 21:21:47 GMT -5
Me and Fritz have been talking about this, He summed up a lot of what i've been thinking. Theres been a couple of times its felt like the guild talks about organization, and leadership, and then when it comes times for that It all becomes random and chaotic. Whenever anyone asks whats going on in the guild, its rare anyone can give an answer beyond "I don't know" from what i've seen.
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Post by Wynterskye on Nov 4, 2011 23:38:22 GMT -5
It is something we are working on. I guess I'll address these in an organized manner. 1. We had an issue with Erlein's account on here, so it was deleted and we are in the process of getting him a new one set up so he can post the raid sign ups, ect. 2. We are human, we make mistakes. Yes, we forget to set up the raid sign ups on the site, because it's usually pretty much the same people running it every time. On top of everything else, I know I personally have been exhausted once I get out of work and want nothing more than to sleep when I've gotten home. I apologize, and am hoping that with my new employee I will be more rested and stressing/freaking out less so I will be more rested when I get home to handle these things. (though I do appreciate that you acknowledged my effort to coordinate) 3. The raid tonight was just a quick thing because people have been really wanting to try and get that last boss down in DH. It was an offer, not a really coordinated thing where people who don't usually get a chance to raid because of plans on the weekend kind of got a chance. We can't always forsee everything, and doing something spontaneous every once in a while is fun. It was kind of like someone going "hey, I want to run a T2. who wants to go with?" I appreciate you speaking up, I do. I'm not saying that we're busier, or anything like that more than anyone else, Erlein and I have been under a LOT of pressure lately from work and other things like that. Please bear with us as we are trying to get our schedules and such back in order with me getting home late from work, ect. Things will be back in order, we promise. It's just a matter of adjusting right now We obviously don't want to lose more members, we've already lost a few just BECAUSE we are raiding so much. So like I said, PLEASE PLEASE bear with us while we try to do the impossible and make everyone happy. **I forgot! I know I've said it before in guild chat many, many times but I can understand forgetting. Erlein DOES NOT always follow the guild chat if he is doing something. He's usually very focused and doesn't notice unless I point out that someone has tried to talk to him** I apologize if anything in here sounds mean, it's not meant to. It just hurts a bit to see the words 'it seems like the leadership doesn't care'.
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Fritz
New Member
Posts: 35
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Post by Fritz on Nov 5, 2011 6:09:27 GMT -5
Wynter, thank you for responding. I understand things can be difficult in real life, and that obviously comes first. I hope things are able to get better for you. At least now I know why I never see Erlein on the forums, and these are the kinds of things that would be good to know up front as a member so we dont feel like our leader is not paying attention to us as a guild.
In regards to the rest of the post. As I said before I see you as the only leadership trying to do everything. I look online and see that we have many many many officers and senior officers, most of whom I have never met or seen before, or havent logged on in a month or more. One or two people cant be expected to do it all, and maybe its time for other officers to step up and help you guys out.
Various guild members have posted in the forums their desire to have a PVP night or a Dungeon night, and while I say I will go, or count me in, I never see anything come of it.
Dayson and I try to involve guild members when we are running a dungeon, and I try to help out members where I can, but most of the officers remain quiet. I have been the leader of a guild before, and I have been an officer, I know how difficult it can be, esspecially in a casual guild environment. But organization is the key. If you are unable to actively manage something because of outside factors, may I suggest asking someone and then appointing that person to take charge of guild dtuies (managing the bank, posting raids, setting up strategies, etc.)
I too have noticed a lot of people leaving, and its not my desire to leave, but its disheartening for me (who doesnt have a mic or like to use vent) to make a suggestion in raid chat, then have it ignored, only to have someone else say the same thing in vent after the next wipe and for it to be acknowledged. Its difficult and frustrating to see a full raid of people signed up on the forum, and then see outsiders who were not signed up get invited instead of those who did (Who were online when the raid started) (This has happened to me and Dayson both now).
Please take note that I say something because I care, and because I dont want to end up leaving the guild and have everyone ask why. I am not leaving the guild right now, but the decision weighs heavily on my mind.
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Post by mareck0819 on Nov 5, 2011 14:59:25 GMT -5
Just to put it out there, and not that I'm complaining, I don't think any of the officer's were given a choice. We were just made officers one day.
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Post by Wynterskye on Nov 5, 2011 15:39:09 GMT -5
People who were made officers were made so because we believed they would have helped the other guildies when needed. Anyone who doesn't want to be an officer can just say so. You can be relieved of your position. I do apologize for lack of organization and it is being remedied as is.
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Post by mareck0819 on Nov 7, 2011 17:34:05 GMT -5
What I said may have come off harsher than intendend. I just wanted folks to know that those of us who are officers aren't necessarily more involved with the direction of the guild than others. It would be nice if we had a system for ranks in the guild though. For example, and feel free to correct me if any of this is already in place and note that these are just suggestions from the peanut gallery. Noob - Obviously our beginner status for people we don't know. This is fine as is. Initiate- Promoted to this rank after a predetermined amount of time (say, a week) without incident. OR If you've grouped with this player many times and know they're worthy this can be the first step. Neophyte, Member, Senior member I think should all be like steps on a pay grade. Maybe on week 3 the person is promoted to Neophyte. Week 4 (end of first month) they become a member and gain access to guild bank. I would say 6 months for a Senior Member. Senior members are just that, members that have been around a while. These members would be expected to help others if the occasion calls for it, more so than younger members that is. Officer- This should be taken seriously. My personal experience with other guilds has been that only officers or higher can do invites but seeing as our way has worked so far I don't see much of a need to change it...it does look better on the guild when only the higher ups can invite though. A promotion to officer should take place when someone is taking on a specific job (coordinating raids for example) that goes beyond typical member duties. A person should be given a choice in this matter as it would entail more responsibility. Senior Officer- These are the folks you go to if you have a problem and the guild leader is not on, they may also stand in for an Officer if said person is absent. Elder, chancellor - Founders of the guild, these are the first members of the guild and can speak for the guild leader in his/her absence. Leader - Guild leader, delegates to officers and senior members tasks that need doing. Also has final say in guild decisions. Ok, whew. Now with all of that said I'm going to negate half of it by asking if we can reduce the number of ranks in the guild. I would say our ranks should be Initiate, Member, Senior Member, Officer, Senior Officer, Leader. We seem to have some superfluous ranks that only make promotion a more annoying task. PS. If the powers that be decide to use any of this I will take a demotion without complaint if it interferes with the system. P.P.S. Our current member notes are cute and all but maybe they should describe the character a bit better, (Main, Alt, and Apothecary) for example. Just a thought.
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adorna
Full Member
Wynter's Pocket Pet
Posts: 105
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Post by adorna on Nov 8, 2011 12:15:39 GMT -5
But.. but... BUT then I won't be Wynters Pocket PET!!!!! *crys*
Good post.
It's a daunting task running a guild. Thank you for not making me an officer, and in the same breath, please forgive me for declining the position.
I've not signed up for raids for the simple reason that I don't know when I will get online, and I would not want to sign up and not be available.
So if you invite me to a raid to take someone's place who's not here, let me know ahead of time that if :so-in-so show's up withing x amount of time would I mind stepping out of the raid. I would be happy to oblige.
I would say that that should be made a policy. Sign up for raid. If you are late we will put in a substitute. Substitute should be informed that they maybe asked to leave if late member arrives within X amount of time, say before the 2nd boss is down? Habitual lateness should not be tolerated however.
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Post by sophrana on Nov 8, 2011 12:51:00 GMT -5
Raids are tricky for guilds Progression is tricky for guilds Obviously no one wants to ostracize people, however downing bosses and progressing does come down to a lot of math, a fair amount of strategy, stats, gear, play style, builds etc.. I feel a little crippled thus far in Rift because in WoW, I had a bunch of addons to help me quickly crunch "the numbers" I was a progression dual speced holy disc healer.. prior to going to WoW I was a PoP Cleric in EQ (froglock no less! ribbit!!) What I can offer, is assistance in putting raid groups together with an eye toward downing bosses and progression if that is what the guild wants/needs. I also propose a more formalized crafting and dungeon system to gear people up. What I have observed, some group makeup is scary.... very scary... like.. shouldnt attempt this instance scary.. I think we have the player base to down instances, and to get everyone in to see the content and finish it, we just need some formalization.. IMHO..
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adorna
Full Member
Wynter's Pocket Pet
Posts: 105
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Post by adorna on Nov 8, 2011 12:56:44 GMT -5
Rift is fairly new, and much different than Wow, so I think that some of us need a bit of help to figure out what the heck we are doing.
I agree a well balanced group, helps. Attempting a dungeon/raid over our ability is not only frustrating, but discouraging for all those involved. I appreciate all the assistance the guild is giving me to become a better player.
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Post by Wynterskye on Nov 8, 2011 21:52:06 GMT -5
I have a lot to say on what everyone has said. There are many good suggestions and I will organize my thoughts before replying in whole. For now I will reply to only one thing Mareck said. Note: I am, and will always be the only Chancellor
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Post by Dayson on Nov 8, 2011 21:56:47 GMT -5
Note: I am, and will always be the only Chancellor *bows* All hail Chancellor Wynterskye! Long my she reign! Huzzah!
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Post by kasuni on Nov 8, 2011 22:48:57 GMT -5
Everyone here has an excellent point and I would definitely first like to point out the obvious, (before throwing my two cents in) which Adorna did an excellent job of stating already: Rift is fairly new, and much different from WoW. (if you want to skip to my two cents, go down to the line) Rift just recently celebrated it's half birthday a couple months ago, which means shortly we'll be approaching a year. Rift add-on support is still in beta. Many things in the game right now seem to be still testing the waters. Even though Rift has a good size player base, those players are having relatively high or significantly different expectations. There are many similarities to WoW and differences. One thing I noticed almost immediately was the time it takes to run through a dungeon. My first dungeon I ran when the dungeon finder was first introduced, took me a better part of two hours. That was with my friend (and fellow guildmate) Amoralia (probably spelled that wrong >.<). I thought this woudl improve at higher levels. Much to my dissappointment at first, it didn't change. As I migrated into T2 and even with 4-5 of us epic'd out in nice gear, it still takes us a good hour and half on average assuming no wipes / deaths. This makes getting to the raid level much harder. You not only have to invest more time (compared to WoW) to get what you need for gear / plaques, but it's still not a guarantee that you will get what you need at that point. I got lucky enough to have a nice wand drop for me in a raid last week and got lucky again and won the dice roll. Unfortunately, the wand had less focus then my current one, but better stats everywhere else. If I equipped it then in the raid, I wouldn't be able to partake in the raid any longer. Funny how that works huh? ^_^ Now, on the flip side of the coin - what do you gain from the long dungeon run? I feel a much better sense of accomplishment. I feel that the people that I ran with have learned something, or we've all learned how to work better together, as well as get to know those folks a bit better and suggest areas (if any are needed) for improvement. That is just one example of any things that is different about Rift. /rant #1 ;D _________________________________________________________ Personally, I like the way the guild raids now, but definitely needs to have someone leading the weekend raids on Saturday / Sunday. Heck, it shouldn't have to be an officer. I have only raided once so far, am barely eligible for T1 raids focus wise, and I would provide no experience in that area. I like having the raids that are basically winged if you will on Friday. Some people's plans vary from week to week. If a group of people feel like rift raiding or just normal raiding, then more power to them. It's not an "official organized event" or anything like that, but just affords another occasional opportunity to some folks that feel like raiding with guildys. Life happens to the best of us Wynter / Erlein. Get whatever you need to under control and come in when you can. Life should always take priority. When that doesn't happen, that's when the real problems start happening. I also like the way the guild ranking system / structure is right now. Some people, myself included, never asked to be officers. But personally I think that's good. That makes it less likely(IMO) for people who try to play politics / or play favorites from getting ahead and asking "since I've done this, this, and this, can I be an officer? Adorna, IMO would also make a great officer. It's not like you are "required" to be on for X days and hours. There a times when I'll be on daily during the week. Other times I won't log in for 2-3 weeks, or even a month at times. Just because you haven't rid a bike in a few years doesn't mean you've forgotten. Responsibilities don't just get thrust upon you, but more of people come and ask you for advice and look up to you. Just like you would to a senior member. Just that, you are expected to treat everyone with respect and sort out any problems that occurs, and what I'm about to state below. Just do whatever needs to be done in a cool, logical, and respectful manner, (which I see nothing but from you Adorna) and BAM you have (IMO) what it takes to be an officer. Which brings me to the next thing... If Wynter / Erlein aren't on and nothing has been organized on the forums, that is when an officer needs to pipe up and organize. These forums are here for a reason. Every event shouldn't have to be started by those two (unless they want to) and it's the point of being an officer to speak up and step in for them when they aren't there. IMO if mulitple senior officers / officers are on and can't all agree (which I find highly unlikely since we seem to be a pretty nice bunch) just take a vote from the guild and see what everyone wants to do. If I'm the only officer on Saturday / Sunday night, I'll get a raid group started and organized. But unless there is an argument(one again I don't see happening from the raid I attended), I"ll be doing little else. However, there are many folks in the guild who ARE experienced raiders and can sound off on how to do each boss...because god knows I'll die every time. CURSE YOU TOILET BOWL MAN!!! In regards to the raid chat, I am also much like Erlein. I get very focused or distracted easily and don't pay much attention to guild chat sometimes. The best way of getting a hold of me is a whisper/tell. Pink text is easily distinguishable between green, white, and yellow. I even hardly pay attention to officer chat sometimes because most of the time it has to do with raiding, and until recently I couldn't raid. So it wasn't a priority save the first couple lines to determine the subject matter. If the person doesn't reply immediately or within a minute or so, try again. They have may have gone AFK for whatever reason,and the text scrolls up. I personally don't plan on reading through 3-20 pages of text from sanctum's open chat along with our guild's chat log. My attention span is already short enough already. ;D I've gone AFK for 15-20+ sometimes...so once again. Be patient and respectful. If you feel someone is ignoring you, bring it up later (or here although it sadly should've made it this far. ) to that person, or another officer to be addressed. Remember, we all have lives. I've had days like Wynter where I log on as Kasuni and just want to be left alone and don't reply to anything in fear of saying something rude. Better to not say anything than something you will regret later. So I guess to sum up my opinion, officers need to take charge when guild leaders / appointed raid leaders aren't available. Take a poll/vote from the guild members online on what they feel like doing, and do it! /rant #2 Sorry if I came off a bit odd or offended anyone. If I did, I'm sorry. See you in Telara! - Kas
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Post by kasuni on Nov 8, 2011 22:51:50 GMT -5
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Post by Wynterskye on Nov 9, 2011 8:13:30 GMT -5
Kasuni I <3 you lol. What you said is true. We promoted people to officers not based on wanting them to do anything, but more because we felt they act in a mature, respectful manner to other guildies and that they would be willing to answer questions, ect if we were not able to.
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